Charlie Sheen – ban bad celebrities?

The following is a transcript of Alan Stock, host of Las Vegas, Newsradio 840 KXNT, interviewing Celebrity Life Coach and Human Behavior Expert, Patrick Wanis Ph.D. for insights and analysis about bad celebrities – do we ban them?

Actor Charlie Sheen was arrested on Christmas Day after Brooke Mueller, his third wife, told police he had pulled a knife on her and threatened to have her killed; Sheen pleaded guilty to misdemeanor third degree assault and could have gotten 3 years in jail but a judge sentenced Sheen to a 30-day jail term, and was ordered to undergo 36 hours of counseling on domestic violence.  Sheen will receive credit for time already spent in rehab and so he avoids any jail time.

According to Celebrity Life Coach and Human Behavior & Relationship Expert, Patrick Wanis PhD, we should separate the art from the artist but also adds that there needs to be a limit. Patrick Wanis also identifies favoritism and vested interest i.e. money and profits in the Charlie Sheen scandal.

Male: Alan Stock is driving you home on the news leader for Las Vegas, Newsradio 840 KXNT.

Alan Stock: 4:12 at Newsradio 840 KXNT.  A good afternoon to you, I’m Alan Stock and I want to thank so much for joining us on this Monday afternoon, joining us right now in the KXNT live line Patrick Wanis, human behavior and relationship expert, talking about bad celebrities.

Patrick, good afternoon, and welcome to Newsradio 840 KXNT.

Patrick Wanis: Thank you, Alan.

Alan Stock: I appreciate you taking the time to join us.  So, you know, I got this interesting release that you sent to my producer and program director, Bob Agnew, that says that we need to separate the art from the artist and realize many artists and entertainers are dysfunctional and not necessarily morally good people.  That’s true, but how do you separate?

I mean, if you’re looking at somebody on the screen like Mel Gibson knowing the things that he said about Jews and blacks and about women and things like that, how do you separate yourself from that kind of stuff?

Patrick Wanis: Well, it’s not easy to separate.  I think the first challenge we have is that we know too much about their personal lives.  In the sense that – I want to use this as an example, Alan, I know that you know who Cecil B. DeMille is?

Alan Stock: I do.

Patrick Wanis: He produced, he directed some of the biggest movies of all time and in fact he was one of the proponents of a lot of the religious movies such as “The Ten Commandments.”  So you would think there’s a reason this guy does “Samson and Delilah” and “The Ten Commandments.”  He must believe in what he does.

Alan Stock: Okay.

Patrick Wanis: But he was a married guy who had serial mistresses.

Alan Stock: Okay.

Patrick Wanis: So if at that time I knew that, does that mean that I no longer go to see “The Ten Commandments”?

Alan Stock: There’s somehow – there’s a difference.  I see it between – and I’m not justifying Cecil B. DeMille’s, you know; I’m not defending him at all, okay?  Even though the movies he made were great but, you know, he didn’t make the vile comments in public over and over and over again that Mel Gibson has made.  I mean, first there’s the comments about the Jews and the whole world and all, making all the worst, now is about the blacks.  He wasn’t using the word “black”, by the way.  It’s the other word he used.  And the vile attitude toward his girlfriend and supposedly hitting her when she had her kid, I think this is nothing that Cecil B. DeMille was ever even thought of doing.

Patrick Wanis: You’re right.  And in fact, before that, Mel Gibson’s first foray into controversy and saying bad things goes back to the ’90s when he made homophobic remarks.

Alan Stock: Right.

Patrick Wanis: But very few people castigated him over that, because they were happy to make lots of money off of him.  But let’s use another example, Alan: Alec Baldwin.  Look at what Alec Baldwin said to his daughter on the phone when he leaves the message and calls her a rude, thoughtless little pig.  Okay.

Alan Stock: And that was disgusting.  I, you know, I found that…

Patrick Wanis: But we have to stop watching – well, we have to stop watching whatever he does.  Now, here’s another example for you, Charlie Sheen.  He’s dated porn actresses.  He’s had problems with the law.  He was a cocaine addict.  His father called the police on him.  And the latest allegation is he pulled a knife on his wife.  Not only just threatened her, he pulled the knife on her.  But CBS or whoever is the producer of the TV show is going to keep paying him money because they’re making money off him.  So it comes to a point where we have to say to ourselves, “Is there a limit?  What is that limit?”  And I do agree there has to be a limit.

Alan Stock: All right, I’ll tell you what you’ll do.  Will you stay with me?

Patrick Wanis: Sure.

Alan Stock: Because I what to find out from you what that limit should be.  Where do we draw the line?  Where do we draw that limit, all right?

We’re coming back and talk to Patrick Wanis.  At what point do you finally say enough is enough and you stop watching these people’s movies?  What is that limit?  I’m curious to hear what Patrick Wanis has to say.  We’re going to come on back and talk to him in just a moment right here at Newsradio 840 KXNT.

Male: More of Alan Stock on Newsradio 840 KXNT.

Alan Stock: 4:23 at Newsradio 840 KXNT.  I’m Alan Stock; Bob Agnew producing; Mark Thomas technically directing this afternoon – great to have you with us.  Right now, we’re talking with Patrick Wanis.  He is a Human Behavior and Relationship Expert, and we’re talking about, well, we’re talking about celebrities’…

I guess, Mel Gibson, all that stuff that he said recently.  But, you know, you said something interesting before, and that was that there is a limit.  What is that limit when we finally say enough is enough; I can’t really go see this guy’s movies or buy his records or anything like that.

Patrick Wanis: I think it has to be answered two ways.  First, Alan, it’s got to be a personal choice.  It’s got to be your own choice of saying, “I know, I’m clear in my own mind of what my limit is.”  And maybe to someone that limit is a sexist remark.  Maybe it’s a limit of a racist remark.  Maybe it’s a threat of death or violence.  It could be anything.

But before I answer what I think might be an appropriate limit, I want to just give you a couple of other examples because everyone listening to this will relate, because you asked a moment ago, what is the limit for us watching a movie by an actor?

Well, it’s not just actors who do all these bad things.  Michael Jackson was accused of pedophilia.  Chris Brown, the famous R&B singer, assaulted his girlfriend Rihanna.  Liza Minnelli was married and divorced four times.

Alan Stock: Yeah.  But, you know, there’s a difference between Liza Minnelli being divorced four times and Yusuf Islam – who used to be known as Cat Stevens – are asking for the death of people who disagree with the Muslim religion.

Patrick Wanis: Yeah.  I agree that there’s a huge difference.  But if we’re going to talk about violence, Russell Crowe took a phone and whacked it across someone’s head in a hotel room, but no one’s certainly mad at him in Hollywood.  Why?  Because they’re making money out of him – Joan Crawford, Academy Award-winning actress – okay, forget the fact that she was married four times, but she was accused of abusing her children.  Her daughter, Christina, recalled her mother dragging her from bed in the middle of the night, when she was age nine, to beat her over the head with a can of scouring powder.

Alan Stock: You’re absolutely right.  In those days, what happened was the movie industry…

Patrick Wanis: The studios.

Alan Stock: The studios controlled what went out to the public.  Now, as you alluded to – when we first started this discussion – we get all this information.  It’s on YouTube.  It’s on Facebook.  It’s on MySpace.  It’s on…

Patrick Wanis: Everywhere.

Alan Stock: It’s everywhere.  And now, we know everything about it.  And I would guarantee you, had we known today about Joan Crawford today, if she was trying to become a movie star today and we knew that she was beating the hell out of her kid, people would probably be turned off to her, too.

Patrick Wanis: And the same with Bing Crosby, because his son says the same thing that his father was – in fact, two of his sons from his first marriage said that their father was abusive.  And yet, Bing Crosby was the crooner who made White Christmas famous.  I guess what I’m saying is, for me – and I want to answer your question properly about the limit – the first thing is there is a difference between what they create and who they are, unfortunately.

Because I believe that most of the artists—actors, singers, dancers come from a place of dysfunction, meaning, there’s some pain, there’s some emotional instability and insecurity, need for attention, et cetera.  That’s what drives them to create the art.  That, however, does not justify their actions and it does not give them a free pass to do whatever they want.  And that’s why we have the law and we have this system of justice.

What I’m saying is we don’t need to know every single detail.  I didn’t need to hear every single thing that Mel Gibson said to his ex-girlfriend.  It is important to know, “Hey, this guy made racist, sexist remarks.  He made threats of death and threats of violence.”  Now I say to myself, “Does this fit in with my morality?”  Well, obviously, it doesn’t.  I don’t think it even fits into anyone’s morality.  But now, do I say, “Am I going to be able to watch his movies or not?”

Alan Stock: The one thing for me, I mean I look at somebody like Vanessa Redgrave who, you know, is a huge bigot and a pro-Palestinian.  It’s hard for me to watch her movies.  It’d be hard for me to watch a Leni Riefenstahl movie knowing who she was, even though she’s regarded as a great artist in the ’30s.  But you know, I mean, she was a Hitler propagandist.  I mean, how do you watch things knowing where the people are coming from like that?

Patrick Wanis: And, Woody Allen.  Alan, what about Woody Allen?

Alan Stock: I agree with you.  Woody Allen is another crackpot.  And you know, I find myself, I’ll be honest with you, going to fewer and fewer and fewer movies, because of people like Woody Allen like I just – it’s just hard for me to sit.  I couldn’t sit through and watch Woody Allen in a movie or Alec Baldwin or some of the other people you’ve talked about.

Patrick Wanis: But Alan, this is the point.  If you were to find out who everyone is underneath, you won’t be seeing a lot of movies and TV shows because a lot of people in Hollywood are not necessarily nice people.  And a lot of people including athletes are not morally-worthy role models.

Alan Stock: So you got to pick and choose, basically.

Patrick Wanis: I think you do and I think you have to know for yourself what is your limit.  For example, maybe not a lot of people realized that Adolf Hitler was also a painter.  But Adolf Hitler murdered millions of people.  That’s not the same as someone who makes racist remarks or sexist remarks, nor does one justify the other.

Alan Stock: I know.  And that would be hard for me to have a Hitler painting in my living room.  I’d be very honest with you.

Patrick Wanis: Right.

Alan Stock: And I understand where you’re coming from.  Listen, I’m up against the clock.  Patrick, it’s been great.  You know, we’ve got to do this again.  I love talking to you about this and we’ve got to chat again.  Would you do that with me sometime?

Patrick Wanis: My pleasure.

Alan Stock: Patrick Wanis, Human Behavior & Relationship Expert.  People want to find you, how could they do it?

Patrick Wanis: Patrickwanis.com.

Alan Stock: That’s easy enough.  All right, Patrick thanks a lot for being with us.  We’ll talk again.

Patrick Wanis: Thanks, Alan.

Alan Stock: Take good care.